Numidium 2. They both basically live outside of the multiverses that they are part of. That was an accident. Sign in to edit View history Talk (0) List of all notable quotes by or about Beyonder (Earth-616). deactivated-5d45fd7ce1a16. Fighting place: Dr. Anyone trying to still argue Pre Retcon Beyonder is some Marvel top tier needs to have their info refreshed. PR-Beyonder was implied to be more powerful than the Living Tribunal, while Mxy was depowered by the Spectre, and Spectre has beaten other 5D imps before. Beyonder is an Infinitely Geometrically Dimensional Multiverse that is more powerful than a Geometrically Dimensional Multiverse. It's similar to how using the Super Exciting guides for SSJ Multipliers should not take away from Goku's feats in 1990 when his SSJ form alone in the Namek Saga was far above a Galaxy busting Freiza. Pre-Retcon Beyonder has no physical form, no spiritual form, and or astral form but can take on these forms when he chooses and Beyonder was once Infinite Dimensional and even still his physical form. Reason? Preretcon beyonder can stand against TOAA and LT. Additional powers include teleportation, flight, the ability to choose his own physical resistances and attributes. He was thousands of times the power of the Marvel. @slacker the hacker said: "@Mackeja said: "Pre-retcon spite. @kingant27: nah, I actually do not think Michael can beat pre retcon beyonder, and Michael is far more powerful than lucifer who is equal to LT and can only win by manipulation. Battles. 4 years ago. This is a simple fight. Learn the difference between the original, toned-down, and evolved versions of the Beyonder, a cosmic entity that can create and. Beyonder's best feat is defeating a multiverse level entity, the Living Tribunal, which was a big deal. Children can be extremely capricious, and a being as powerful as the Beyonder with that attitude can be very dangerous. 7 K. bigbran. #1 Omega48. Just like the sky seems infinite to us puny humans, the pre retcon beyonder s power seems unlimited to puny marvel multiverse. Reviews: 0. Sylvester Stallone, Jason Staham, Bruce Willis, Van Damme, Vin Diesel and Chuck Norris start fighting each other. Pre Retcon Beyonder is TOAA of a world much much larger than Marvel Multiverse. Protege and Pre-Retcon Beyonder 49%. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The Living Tribunal was able to stop the Infinity Gaunlet from working, while PR Molecule Man stated to be stronger than all other beings in the Multiverse, Including Abstracts, and the Living Tribunal . We can actually prove that Pre-Retcon Beyonder is fodder to Composite-DC. Round 1: CAS vs. As you can see in the marvel hierarchy the one above all is at the very top. But it doesn't end there. Pre-Retcon Beyonder/Classic Beyonder-As a result of being the entirety of a dimension of far more scope than our own multiverse, he was more powerful than all of the rest of reality (he was. FollowRound 5: Pre-Retcon Molecule Man vs God Emperor Doom Round 6:Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs God Emperor Doom Bonus Round: Protege vs God Emperor Doom This thread is archived New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A GregLeagueGamingAlt •. Gan and Crimson King are basically super-amped versions of P. The Beyonder is a fictional cosmic entity appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. @The Mjolnir Wielder: Doubt it, Beyonder has a weak will and can easily be manipulated. Powers are basically the same thing. R4 - Pre Retcon Beyonder takes on the 5 and the Defenders members at the same time. However, he can scale to characters with immeasurable speed via statements. It took 3 of the Beyonders to take down the same LT. The Pre-Retcon Beyonder is literally millions of times more powerful than the Marvel creation which contains infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses and so on into infinity. vs. COIE Anti Monitor. The One Above All. Beyonder (Pre-Retcon)PennywiseThe Crimson King. The omnipotent Beyonder is on a destructive rampage and has decided to destroy the entire Marvel omniverse. . THe nature and effects of the Retcon are irrelevant. 1. PR Beyonder was able to erase LT with a wave of his hand. Originally, the Marvel Comics' character known as The Beyonder, as portrayed during Jim Shooter's Secret Wars duology, as a nearly all-powerful entity. Pre-Retcon Beyonder has more statements of powers than the new ones. Win by destroying or sealing opponent. His powers exceeded that of even abstract entities present in infinite realms, coupled with the LT who holds authority over said entities to the point where their powers are a drop in the ocean to him. Theoreticaly speaking yes Pre Retcon Beyonder is above TOAA simply because TOAA is the most powerful being in the marvel universe, and PRB is 1 million times more powerful than the collective. PR Beyonder is millions of times stronger than the Marvel multiverse. The Beyonder at his full power pre-retcon is omnipotent. There is literally nothing that OPM could do to even affect him. • 3 yr. " lord marvel is said to be omnipotent and he can get smacked up. . The Beyonder and the Molecule Man, also known as Owen Reece, have a complex and tumultuous relationship. Biography: The man, the myth, the legend. Round 9: Lord English (Anyone who served him and who were amped by him count) Respect Thread for him and a bit for his Servants. The people at Marvel Comics figured it was a dumb idea, so they changed (or retconned) it. This fight takes place in a neutral space and either party wants to kill the other. The beyonder is accordingy to comic book guys a 5th tier cosmic. His presence alone destroyed infinite universes. PR Beyonder takes it 10/10. And the SCP verse is on par with the Dark Tower when it comes to sheer size and scale. With this skill (plot manipulation), still can affect Pr beyonder. Beyonder was a formless mindless white space above the Multiverse, made purely. She inherited the Demiurgic power through her father and with Lucifer's guidance, she molded and created her own universe, and that was a vastly weaker and earlier version. who universe. Beyonder even realized he was the Pre-Retcon one too lol Not to mention Beyonder detailing Doc Strange's win con over him, tailor made for Loki and proven when he and Sylvie enchanted Alioth, who. His anti-feats are plot-induced because it's attempting to tell the story of him trying to figure out the Marvel multiverse because it's so tiny and simplistic in scope to the Beyonder realm. Beyonder erases him from existence. The Beyonder, and Molecule man, are each. The time lords are at their best. " lord marvel is said to be omnipotent and he can get smacked up. Been done here on the vine. Beyonder stomps. As PRB is an embodiment of Infinite Dimensions + Beyonder Realm in totality, and there is no evidence that Demonbaneverse is. Kingant27. Assuming the several dimensions to be universes isn't something streched considering the PRB power. Then there the Beyonder Child unit thing that is related to The beyonders. R1: Post retcon Beyonder vs Bleach verse. but the other writers ruined and screwed up these characters. Within the beyond realm, he's supposed to be omnipresent. 0. Eternity, Death, Infinity, Oblivion. Motivation: ROB Fight in ROBverse. He is only nigh-omnipotent, nigh-omniescent, and nigh-omnipresent. Eternity, Death, Infinity, Oblivion. He was the single most dangerous threat the Marvel multiverse had ever faced, until he was retconned into a more limited character with varied origins. Post-retcon: The planet or localized area of space is his plaything. Post Retcon the Beyonder was part cosmic cube along with Owen. remember wanda during HOM rewrote/destroyed 98 percent of the multiverse. This is pre-retcon Beyonder. #2 Edited By juiceboks Moderator. PR Beyonder curbstomps. This is a spite thread then . 0. In Immortal Hulk#50 TOAA said he becomes TOBA when he has to do. well omnipotent. deactivated-5b3daad020468. Batman with prep vs Beyonder. The Beyonder is far, far beyond a Multiversal. He. The power possessed by the Beyonders seems to dwarf all other beings in existence, with the exception of the One-Above-All, as the Beyonders were able to defeat and subsequently destroy every incarnation of every cosmic being that ruled over existence within a matter of months. so the Doomslayer stomps. GEB=Anti Pressence. Living Tribunal is beyond Eternity, and Pre-Retcon Beyonder was more powerful than LT. I don’t know anything about Anos Voldigoad, but Beyonder beats pretty much anyone so I’ll. Let me remind you that SCP verse is much bigger than both Marvel and DC. Join this channel to get access to perks:Credits to THZCheck out YFV (@YFVillainYT). It's my understanding that Anti-Monitor is on a lower tier than the Living Tribunal, who in return is far below pre-retcon Beyonder. The Beyonder didn’t know. 0. For reference Pre-Retcon Beyonder is stronger than the Infinity Gauntlet by leaps and bounds but a Cosmic Cube is stated and shown to be vastly inferior to the Infinity Gauntlet. Even if we insanely highball Spectre to be equal to the Living Tribunal (which, as powerful as he is, he clearly is. That makes me believe that Beyonder may not be all that he is made out to be. It's stated so multiple times throughout the comics. Reply. TOAA wins either way though. Not only that he struggled heavily against madrakk and trust me Beyounder is infinty stronger than Mandrakk. The same way AAO is the Supreme Being of the Marvel Multiverse. 5 years ago. #6 Edited By DC_Marvel_1000. It took 3 of the Beyonders to take down the same LT. Round 1: All-Mighty vs True Form Oblivion. . Pre Retcon Beyonder is more insane than his diet coke race counterparts Hickman used(yes they predate Hickman as Kubik in that FF4 comic shows, I know). Do not make any Thanos with HOTU vs threads. All indications are that. pre retcon beyonder: can destroy an infinite-d multiverse and exists independently of it. Pre-retcon Beyonder was significantly more powerful than the Living Tribunal. The Beyonder is millions of times more powerful than the combined power in the multiverse which includes the Living Tribunal - Scan 1. PR Beyonder had full backing by Marvel Boss, Jim Shooter to do anything he wanted. . Pre-Retcon Beyonder is probably here as well. thtadthtshldntb Anti nBSG Troll. Living tribunal. Pre Retcon Beyonder. Jul 30, 2018. Dr Manhattan has the power to control matter as well as subatomic perception and control. 2. [deleted] • 8 yr. R1: Pre-Retcon Beyonder Takes Low-Mid Difficulty. R3 - Inhuman/Mutant Beyonder faces the 5. Pre Retcon Beyonder is the Supreme Being of his Multiverse. Goku is low outer at best and byonder is easily outerversal. than i understand from other blogs Pre-retcon Beyonder is High 1-A/ High Outerversal in beyond-realm. He would erase him from existence. Pre Retcon Beyonder Stomps, the only powers that could hope to challenge him are The One Above, the Ultimate Source, The Presence, The Living Tribunal. 4 years ago. Even an Taiyoku level of One is easily Outerversal level. In Immortal Hulk#50 TOAA said he becomes TOBA when he has to do. High-End Composite Time Lords and High-End Interpretation Downstreamers 3. Pre-Retcon Beyonder just wishes Spectre to be gone and that's it. Pre-Retcon Beyonder ruins them casually. A being who is millions of times stronger than the marvel Multiverse vs a. Thanos wins them all unless its Thanos vs OAA. Pre-retcon beyonder can't do anything to sun wukong. Beyonder (Pre-Retcon Feats, Secret Wars and 1984 and pre-1984 Scaling only) Ivory Kings, First Firmament + Ultimate Ultimates. R2: God stomps. Pre-retcon molecule man is the most powerful version of recce. Scarlet King (SCP) vs Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Pre-Retcon Molecule Man (Marvel) R2:The scarlet demon, WOW I am speechless. When The Pre-Retcon Molecule Man(with the Infinite portion of The Beyonder's Powers)fought The Beyonder, they were stated to be "2 of the mightiest being in ALL. The Classic Beyonder would be able to take Anti Monitor at full power out. 1 year ago. VS. PRE RETCON BEYONDER goes to the DRAGON BALL universe and fights all Dragonball characters at the same time - this includes Zeno Sama, The Angels, Whis, All Gods of Destruction, Broly, Goku, Vegeta, etc. With 1 year of prep Doom could probably bridge the gap. Death only dealt with Dream so casually because of how the concepts they embody interact with each other. You do realize Pre-Retcon Beyonder is like, the second or third most powerful comic book character ever, while Anti-Monitor wouldn't even be in the Top 10. than i understand from other blogs Pre-retcon Beyonder is High 1-A/ High Outerversal in beyond-realm. The thing is though, "Pre-Retcon Beyonder" is the Beyonder circa Secret Wars II, 1985. Bloodlusted. @rabumalal: Dream would probably solo LT hes near pre-retcon beyonder level at best read into his feats. you speak nonsense earth boy. The Pre-Retcon Beyonder casually eliminated Death from the universe and could have wiped out the universe in a snap. He is the embodiment of the Beyonder Realm, a place much bigger than the Marvel Multiverse, outside of reality. A being who is millions of times stronger than the marvel Multiverse vs a being for whom the marvel. Composite-DC/Vertigo's Infinite Hierarchy is far. No one. @Ziro: Pre-Retcon Beyonder got his powers taken away by Dr. Neutral Omega Beyonder has better feats. 7 Doctor Manhattan: Methodical. This fight takes place in a neutral space and either party wants to kill the other. For now pre retcon beyonder has the advantage imo. Doom stated the LifeForce >>> the power of Beyonder. Galactus is fodder here. Follow 474. Basically beyonder is being of infinite dimensions when He limits himself, but as beyond realm he is a creature that goes beyond all that. Seriously at his peak height, Pre Retcon Beyonder was something that no current DC character could handle. The original Beyonder was considered to be the most powerful being in the multiverse, having power surpassing Cosmic Entities, such as the Living Tribunal and Eternity. Lucifer and Micheal are on the Tribunal's level at best. Doom, when has anything even close to that happened to the Tribunal? My point is Marvel states he is the one thing/person/entity that. -Protege copied Beyonder powers. #28 ovy7. 0. Lucifer obviously wins, the guy literally has half of God's omnipotence. This is the biggest mismatch. Going by Cosmology Tiering. synnar the. Pre-Retcon Beyonder just erases the Throne of Heroes, killing every single servant because servants are copies of heroes, made using information from the Throne of Heroes Or he could just wipe out the entire Fate universe and everything outside itPre-Retcon Beyonder kills Thanos no matter what the circumstances are. Round 2: All-Mighty vs Pre-Retcon Beyonder. So they pretty much stomps the likes of Galactus, Mephisto and etc who are universal at most. This is the biggest mismatch. Created by writer Jim Shooter and artist Mike Zeck, the. Nope. New comments cannot be posted. Basically all Dragonball characters ever created in their most powerful form fight PR BEYONDER all at the same time. Pre-Retcon beyonder could be said to be the "God before genesis" he was God before TOAA existed in the comics at that time, and when TOAA came into existence as an omnipotent character they had to greatly reduce the power of the Beyonder, from there they began to know him as "Post-retcon beyonder". Hence why people differentiate the. deactivated-621c40d36c53f. . High-End Composite Time Lords and High-End Interpretation Downstreamers 3. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. All proof that is needed is the fact that he is beyond the marvel multiverse. At the time this storyline was written Beyonder Spider-Man would stomp. Destroyah said: Doesn't really change the fact that PR Beyonder was as close you could get to being omnipotent then just being. Thanos wins this. as omnipotent deities in their respective realities, the OAA Dominates the Hoi Realm. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Follow 22700. He was stated to be millions of times powerful than the Entire Marvel Multiverse Combined which even included The Living Tribunal and Molecule Man and We all know that Living Tribunal is almost as Powerful As Michael Demiurgos. #1 Edited By gokupwnzalllol. vs. Also the Doomslayer has way more fighting and combat feats. He is a cosmic cube which is an Omni-dimensional object that can expand infinitely but that is only a limited part of him because he limits himself. The living embodiment of The Beyond Realm, a reality outside of the Marvel multiverse, he utilizes his powers over reality, space, and time to observe the neverending battle between good and evil, serving as both an ally and enemy to Earth’s. Pre-Ret MM having abstracts such as LT and Eternity beg him to fight Beyonder implies he's one incredibly powerful dude. Both are in character. Pre retcon beyonder was absolutely omnipotent, the equal of the one above all. @Metalslash said: MJJ wins. Forum Posts. Batman gets as much prep time as he wants. PR Beyonder is a casual multiverse buster. LT literally held the entirety of Marvel and DC universe in the palm of. R1 - Cosmic Cube post retcon Beyonder faces the 5, he can call for his Molecule man version if hes stomped. How the fuck does a "millions of times stronger than the multiverse" Beyonder become. Still, Pre-retcon Beyonder stomps here. Beyonder was the sum power of a multiverse, which still resides within a greater omniverse that Wanda's spell began to collapse . Pre Retcon Beyonder shitstomps the edgelord version of Batman into the ground, along with the rest of the DCverse. The Beyonder is bloodlusted. Featherine is way above than Beyonder. Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Oblivion. Possibly the most powerful character in creation. ago. They literally referenced him and said that he was just a child. Jim Shooter who was the editor at Marvel at the time said so and the Beyonder himself said so. Pre- Retcon Beyonder would not be that much powerful if he came now. Idk its hard to say because the beyonders who destroyed eternity infinity and all the cosmic entities, it took time for them to do that but the Marquis of Death waved his hand and they all died. When The Pre-Retcon Molecule Man(with the Infinite portion of The Beyonder's Powers)fought The Beyonder, they were stated to be "2 of the mightiest being in ALL Existence(or, All-Fiction)". Now I made a lengthy blog detailing the powers of the Beyonder, Post-Retcon. 9 K. Just because Beyonder, originally wasnt from marvel multiverse doesnt mean that Beyonder isnt a marvel character, because he is. Any of the Smash gods could do it, and so would the beings above. . deactivated-5d755a684b00b. Regulator Thanos wins, both these characters are above LT in power scope, however the HOTU. There it, the respect thread for Pre-Retcon Beyonder. Morals are on for Shuma. Pre-retcon The Beyonder was omnipotent in his Beyondverse, outside the Multiverse, and his powers were similar to those of the Living Tribunal who was a Multiverse level entity but the original beyonder was stated to have been the strongest character in the marvel universe in terms of nigh omnipotence and omniscience. Then the pre retcon beyonder attacks himself. 2. Pre retcon beyonder was the closest to TOAA I think any being has come to. . The recent additions of the Heart of the Universe as an accepted Canon Thing, and the Pre-Retcon Beyonder's revisions were the first results of such result. The beyonder is under him. Maybe I have used faulty logic regarding this. Pre Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man are at TOAA’s level. @kingant27: nah, I actually do not think Michael can beat pre retcon beyonder, and Michael is far more powerful than lucifer who is equal to LT and can only win by manipulation. Round 2: Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs God of Stories Loki Bonus Round: Pre-Retcon Beyonder vs Venom (The End) Archived post. Pre retcon beyonder was stronger than all of marvel multiverse combined with exception of TOAA. Round 10: Presence And GEB ( Respect Thread for GEB) Both are. Pre retcon beyonder was more of a plot device than a character lol. You need to be logged in to post comments. I know what the title of the series is and I know the beyonder is extremely powerful but so is the HOTU. 43. Who wins this? r/whowouldwin •. Beyonder (Earth-616)/Quotes Category page. Originally Beyonder was a mysterious cosmic entity from outside the multiverse who was more powerful than Galactus, The Celestials, and the entire Cosmic Compass. Round 4 same as round 3 the retcon happened for a reason. At that time, The Beyonder was more powerful than the Living Tribunal and thus everything else in the Marvel Universe. He hailed from, and was one with the Beyond-Realm, a featureless dimension outside the entirety of the Multiverse, and upon descending into the physical reality he was shown to be immensely superior in. He toke on beyonder and was stated to be LT's superior MM did say that he had become a component of great power, but not quite up. Abraxas, the personification of the destruction of the multiverse, is likely somewhere around here, although since he only appeared in a few issues of Fantastic Four as far as I know, it's hard to tell. The Pre-Retcon Beyonder is literally millions of times more powerful than the Marvel creation which contains infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses upon infinite multiverses and so on into infinity. Originally posted by. Fight takes place in an infinite dimension. Precursors and Silentium Flood (Halo) vs Pre-Retcon Beyonder (616 Marvel) Apparently, the Precursors are massively multiversal as the Forerunners, who are inferior to them, can use entire universes to power themselves. Conditions of the battle: *Composite Time Lords will include variants of the Time Lords from the Expanded Doctor Who Universe (e. PR Beyonder takes it 10/10. Pre Retcon Beyonder is TOAA of a world much much larger than Marvel Multiverse. let's wait and see his actual feats. Mismatch, this version of Beyonder is TOAA level. Adptive armor isnt doing a thing for him here just as much as it helped against. O. This is like putting TOAA against an ant. Basically beyonder is being of infinite dimensions when He limits himself, but as beyond realm he is a creature that goes. The pre-retcon beyonder is aware of the writer/publishers and can threatening them so that possibly plot resistance. Victory conditions: for the beyonder it is to destroy the entire race of time lords, for the time lords it is killing or making the beyonder surrender. Beyonder still probably loses to Thought Robot Superman, Final Batsuit Batman, Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman, Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos, Perpetua, the Darkest Knight, true form Darkseid,. He was the TOAA of his own multiverse, separate to that of the Marvel multiverse, before he came across the. Doom, when has anything even close to that happened to the Tribunal? My point is Marvel states he is the one thing/person/entity that. He's just on a whole nother level from GEB. Beyonder is canonically a "child unit" of the BeyonderS that were the antagonists of the 2015 series- and those things wiped out the entire marvel abstract tier including LT without breaking a sweat. Beyonder - vs - Beyonder # 21 K. A Time Lords) from the. Both strike an ambiguous pose when it comes to creating a universe. I never understood why people tried to mesh post-retcon feats with the pre-retcon continuity, what was written after the retcon was never canon to the Beyonder arc. Lucifer is above an Infinitely Layered Creation. His accident poked a pinhole into the universe of a child Beyonder, and the energy from that universe empowered him. But i think they have more "battle feats" (killed LT, killed millions/billions/or much more than that, of celestials (since they killed all of then from all multiverse). He wins. First, that was a bad parody of Aquiles. Most being have failed, and only two holds the hope of all creation. The Soruce(DC) 5. Also, I should mention that they are probably re-retconning him to his previous levels soon. Beyonder is marvel. Pre Retcon is still cooler, jist because of cosmology Expansion, defenders beyonder seems stronger but he is featless for now. #44 Edited By Debunker020202. #. Post-retcon Beyonder loses hands-down. No Prep. Pre-Retcon Beyonder would easily beat Lucifer Morningstar, and would probably stalemate TOAA and MoM. Pre-Retcon Beyonder is probably here as well. He also sits just below the prime meta-versal being in his respective property. If i had to lowkey choose one blindly, i'd go with PRB. BEYONDERSIn fact, Pre-Retcon Beyonder had a completely different origin than being a child unit. Only if the Beyonder is in his realm, but that becomes a major stomp based on whats said here. A common misconception about HoTU is that it's omnipotent or a fraction of TOAA's power, multiversal and some stuff of the like, the only indicator for this is that thanos absorbed LT during his fight, in terms of power, HoTU isn't a lot more impressive than the IG for an example. Isn't that pre retcon beyonder? post retcon last i can remember was way weaker than pre retcon beyonder and Fu walks around from High hyperversal to Outerversal. WF Mxy vs Pre Retcon Beyonder is basically picking which company you like more : DC or Marvel. Pre Retcon Beyonder VS Azathoth 179 results 1 2 3 4 #1 Edited By deactivated-5fb6c77c8d900 I see alot of extrenely OP character being pitted against. Another statement made about. Forum Posts. User Lists: 0We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Basically beyonder is being of infinite dimensions when He limits himself, but as beyond realm he is a creature that goes beyond all that. Beyonder was an alien entity from Marvel comics who was a multiversal threat and a hero. Manhattan's league. Round 4: All-Mighty vs The three of them. PR Beyonder had full backing by Marvel Boss, Jim Shooter to do anything he wanted. Beyonder Wallpapers. There are more multiverses in existence than stars in the sky. The thought of Beyonder defeating SCP 3812 because he was able to destroy a billion universes is laughable. Eru Iluvatar is more like SCP 3812 but. Due to sun wukong's absolute transcendence to buddhahood. . Does it matter by that logic Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) because he didnt resist doom taking his power thats a contradiction in your opinion about PR Beyonder. The Beyonder has always been a child-like being, which makes him very dangerous. Pre-Retcon Beyonder wins fairly convincingly. The same exact way Presence is the Supreme Being of the DC Multiverse. I would take the race of the Beyonders against the race. Originally posted by Endless Mike Not as powerful as Squirrel Girl Isn't SG like tied with TOAA in power or something? She stomps all of fiction at the same time, and does it repeatedly over and over again. It’s Lucifer vs PR Beyonder basically.